The Steampunk Empire

The Crossroads of the Aether


Scribblers' Den

Welcome to Scribblers' Den, the online tavern where authors of the ~punk genres can meet to share concepts and philosophies of The Craft in the hope that these conversations will provide the fertile ground that will give rise to tomorrow's incredible ideas.  You needn't be a famous author, nor even a published one to be a member.  You need only be serious.  This group is not about exclusion nor limitations, in fact it has only one rule:  No personal attacks on a fellow member for expressing his or her own opinion.  Violation of that axiom will get you thrown out of here so fast it will leave you with whiplash, and this is the only warning that will be given.  So pull up a chair, order a round, and put your wares on the table.  This is the place where imaginations fly!

Members: 178
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Discussion Forum

Researching Your Story

Started by Linda Whitworth. Last reply by P. Aloysius Regnad 1 hour ago. 3 Replies

Hi. It's me again. With more questions. So I posted what I have written so far and got great feedback on it. Next comes the research. I started using an online program called LitLift. It seems a very clean and easy program. However, I did not…Continue

Question on settings

Started by Linda Whitworth. Last reply by Linda Whitworth yesterday. 27 Replies

You're going to see lots of questions from me as I am new to this. I am currently reading a steampunk story "Clockwork Calico: The Golden Owl" by Lana Axe. It doesn't give a specific mention as to where the story takes place, except for the name of…Continue

Tags: parallel, history, world, alternate, story


Started by Blimprider. Last reply by Blimprider Aug 24. 10 Replies

Looking for someone?  Here's where to reach them:          Aaron Martinez          Adam…Continue

Tags: directory

Manga Images: From Cat: Title: Kiy:Jumoku no Musuko (Son of the Forest)

Started by Cat: Blacksmith Mstr. Adept. Last reply by Cat: Blacksmith Mstr. Adept Aug 13. 13 Replies

Here they are--  Thanks again to everyone including Professor Argon BatsContinue

Tags: american, native, oyate, manga

Indie Author Interviews

Started by C William Perkins. Last reply by C William Perkins Jul 30. 19 Replies

This is my vision: I'd like to create a place to Interview other Indie Authors. A place where the authors can show off a little and get some press and share their vision. And also a place where fans and readers can go to get to know an author to see…Continue

Technical: Best bit of writing advice you've learned in the last year.

Started by Mark Lingane. Last reply by Stephanie Kato Jul 22. 15 Replies

As this is a writer's group, I thought I'd start the first of a technical series, a sort of tips and tricks section that everyone can contribute to. Hopefully it can help with a new perspective when analyzing your own work.I'll kick it off with this…Continue

Comment Wall


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Comment by Danny Knestaut 2 hours ago
Thanks for the compliment, William, but my associates degree in liberal arts hardly qualifies me for anything.

One of the books I'm currently reading, A Latent Dark by Martin Kee, has internal dialog all over the place, uses very little deep POV, and in fact, has a lot of flat-out regular POV errors. The whole book could benefit from some serious time with a developmental editor, but I keep reading because Kee tells a good, Stephen King-esque story, and I care about the protagonist. All else is forgiven.

If you'd like to read a whole novel that uses a lot of deep POV, I might humbly suggest Arachnodactyl. The entire novel was an experiment in bringing emotional presence to narrative fiction, and deep POV was one of my more frequently used tools.
Comment by William J. Jackson 3 hours ago

Good evening, y'all. Danny, spectacular posts. I had no clue on deep POV, and now I see we all do it to a certain extent...but all the way? It would be an interesting novel! For me, though, I'd advise against you reading my works. Thought blurbs. Lots. Italics. Not that I don't agree it can be a distraction, but the Legacy Universe is equal style literature and comic books. Thought blurbs used to be big in comics. I had to decide that was my style a few years back, but always eager to find other avenues for future projects.

Jack, glad to see you have become the One! Writer judo chop!

Karen, more pics! C'mon Friday!

Also, Danny, you should be teaching a class. JS.

Comment by Blimprider 7 hours ago

   Brilliant post recommended by Brother Knestaut.  By coincidence, it addresses an issue I have been publicly dealing with for a couple of months.  Just this last week I was able to stop worrying about what kind of writer everyone else thinks I should be, and achieve oneness with the kind of writer that I am.  I have instantly become better in quality, more highly productive, and maybe most importantly, happy within myself.  This might be the most important read of the year, and a big vote of thanks to Danny for tracking it down for us!

Comment by Danny Knestaut 8 hours ago
I wanted to share this blog post on why seeking advice on your writing might actually be toxic for your writing.
Comment by Alice E Keyes 10 hours ago
Thank you for the explanation, Danny. Definitely, 300 level class stuff.
Comment by Danny Knestaut 12 hours ago

Part 2 of 2 posts...

To take that a step further, deep POV not only limits itself only to things that are important to the character, but also includes her reactions. The picture of her aunt on safari in Africa may have sat on her vanity for five years, disturbed only by the occasional passage of a feather duster, but if the character notices it, takes time to look at the creases on her aunt's face, the way she's looking off the camera as if in search of anything more entertaining than the photographer's get up, and her posture which looks bored, yet more lively in blouse and trousers than she'd ever seen her aunt in skirt and mutton sleeves, then also deep POV would take the time to show the character's reaction. The character is excited at the prospect of being on her own safari in a week. Though a tiny niggle of worry pulls at the corner of her stomach. Her aunt never really seemed to fit back in once she returned, like a puzzle piece warped by rain and sun. The character swallows and straightens the front of her skirt in the vanity mirror. Will the same thing happen upon her return?

Deep POV is a technique of writing that limits description to the experience of the point-of-view character, with an emphasis on *experience,* in order to immerse the reader in the story. When done effectively, the author all but disappears, and it is simply the reader and the character together in the room.

And another thing about deep POV that I've come to decide upon, but haven't read it anywhere, so I have no authority to back me up here other than personal experience, is that internal dialog is a violation of deep POV. Every time I read a passage where I am literally told what the character thinks in Italics, it bumps me out of the moment. It is the author intruding, laying a finger upon my shoulder to whisper in my ear what the character is literally thinking. It is the definition of telling over showing. In the example above, I totally let the reader know what the character was thinking without resorting to, *I wonder if I won't fit back into society like my aunt when I return from safari?* she thought.

Comment by Danny Knestaut 12 hours ago

Part 1 of 2 posts...

Deep POV is a set of techniques used to generate greater immersion on behalf of the reader. When used effectively, the result is that the narrator takes a back seat to the character. The author should be invisible, and the reader should be deeply attuned to the POV character's experience. I've been trying to find the blog post that really drove it home for me, but I can't remember who wrote it, and I can't find it, and I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking the thing.

One of the simpler techniques is to ditch dialog tags. So instead of, "Get rid of dialog tags," Danny said. It'd read more like: Danny placed his coffee cup on the table and shook his head. "Get rid of dialog tags." Getting rid of dialog tags and replacing them with action serves two purposes. It adds action and context to dialog, and when done well, adds emotion. It also replaces a device that has one single function, which is the dialog tag. Yes, getting rid of 100% of dialog tags is likely not possible, and not all practical. Just like in showing vs. telling, we all agree that showing is better, but sometimes you just have to tell something, and sometimes you just have to go with, "she said."

Another technique is to limit description to only what the character would notice. I see this violated *constantly* in fiction. How many times have you read something where the flow of the story is stopped so that the author can shoehorn in a description of the character, or a description of the building or the room the character works in and has worked in for every weekday of the last 20 years? It ruins the momentum of the story. It is a speedbump. It draws the reader out of the story. It's as good as the author grabbing the reader by the elbow and saying, "Wait, hold on a second, I have to tell you a few things because I went to the trouble to think this stuff up, and someone once told me that I have to put description in my story."

Instead, in deep POV, the only things that are ever described are the things that the character notices. Things that stick out. Things that are important to the character. Things that the character will react to. If the character's bedroom has been the same for five years, and she doesn't give it a single thought, then don't waste the reader's time. The golden rule of deep POV is that if it isn't important to the character, then it isn't important to the reader.

Comment by Alice E Keyes 16 hours ago
I took Deep POV to mean that the story is more than characters moving through the story and a fundamental change/ growth of the characters to a deeper meaning to why the story is being told- a deeper underlining truth to the characters and their story.
Comment by Lady Naomi 17 hours ago
Oh, how did I forget world building?!
Yes, Jack & Emeline, I think this is exactly what we are, but is there a way to zip it all up into a super digestible 'course'? We've got the skills and ideas for sure!
Comment by Karen J Carlisle yesterday

More pics from the ball on Friday on my blog. thanks everyone.

Deep POV, Danny? How do you define that?


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